Discussion:
FT-100 And Autotuners
Bill Evans
2003-05-21 14:02:53 UTC
Permalink
After many, many months of studying all pertinent
reflectors, reading reviews in various magazines and talking
to users, I decided to purchase a Yaesu FT-100D for
(primarily) mobile and 454/144/432 operation at my lake
cottage.

However, after operating mobile for many years with a
Kenwood TS-690S/AT, I realize how important an
easy-to-implement, wide-range, autotuner function is - even
when qsying just a few kHz on a band like 80 m. The Icom
IC-706 models offer terrific capabilities in this regard,
when used with both Icom and aftermarket tuners (which
duplicate the Icom remote tuner interface). Just hit the
IC-706 "Tune" button and away you go. Rig mode switches to
CW, power is cut to 10 Watts, remote autotuner is activated
and in less than 5 seconds you are ready to go on the new
frequency with an excellent match.

However, after studying the technical info on the LDG RT-11
and W4RT web sites, I have to conclude there are a few
impediments in achieving equivalent operation with the
FT-100D and aftermarket autotuner products that clearly
outperform the Yaesu FC-20.

I do not wish to use an ATAS-100, FC-20 or any of the Yaesu
products made for the FT-100D. While easy to use, they are
clearly not high performers on more difficult bands like 80
m and 160 m and have limited impedance range. (Yes, I
operate mobile on 160!)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but my investigations
suggest that a combination of an FT-100D, LDG RT-11 remote
autotuner and W4RT OTT-100D "one-touch tune" for the FT-100D
still has the following limitations:

1. The OTT-100D "keys" the FT-100D into CW but does not
diminish the output power to 10 Watts. One must first use
the menu system to diminish the carrier power. The LDG tuner
does not want to "see" more than 25 Watts during the tuning
process, otherwise damage may occur. Can one be sure to
remember to decrease power before tuning the antenna, then
increase it again afterwards??

2. The OTT-100D does not appear to place the RT-11 into
"autotune" mode. One must activate "tune" on the RT-11 via
its control interface. To do this from the driver position
would seem to require the LDG remote control panel, an added
expense and space occupant. (In my vehicle, the RT-11 and
body of the FT-100D would be in the trunk with the removable
head being installed at the driver position.)

There also appear to be interfacing problems with the
FT-100D and several high performance screwdriver antennas.
Control interfaces are "being developed" or "on the way".

Seems like Yaesu's determination to have FT-100D purchasers
use its antenna (ATAS-100) and autotune products (FC-20) has
resulted in interfacing problems to high-performance
autotuners and antennas that aren't there with the Icom or
Kenwood small, mobile rigs.

Please correct me if I've got this all wrong, as I'd love to
hear that the interfacing to an RT-11 can be done with
one-touch timing, including reduced CW power for tuning (25W
maximum) and a return to selected mode after the button
push - as is possible with other rigs.

Comments would be much welcomed.

Bill Evans
VE4UD
313 Carpathia Road
Winnipeg, Manitoba, R3N 1T2
PH: (204) 489-7434
FAX: (204) 487-7199
< bevans-ElZOzcW6kOwsA/***@public.gmane.org >




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Stephen Finch
2003-05-21 14:16:04 UTC
Permalink
Why not contact/email W4RT directly and share with them your concerns?
If you are correct, then their solution is severely lacking.

Steve
AIØW
Post by Bill Evans
After many, many months of studying all pertinent
reflectors, reading reviews in various magazines and talking
to users, I decided to purchase a Yaesu FT-100D for
(primarily) mobile and 454/144/432 operation at my lake
cottage.
However, after operating mobile for many years with a
Kenwood TS-690S/AT, I realize how important an
easy-to-implement, wide-range, autotuner function is - even
when qsying just a few kHz on a band like 80 m. The Icom
IC-706 models offer terrific capabilities in this regard,
when used with both Icom and aftermarket tuners (which
duplicate the Icom remote tuner interface). Just hit the
IC-706 "Tune" button and away you go. Rig mode switches to
CW, power is cut to 10 Watts, remote autotuner is activated
and in less than 5 seconds you are ready to go on the new
frequency with an excellent match.
However, after studying the technical info on the LDG RT-11
and W4RT web sites, I have to conclude there are a few
impediments in achieving equivalent operation with the
FT-100D and aftermarket autotuner products that clearly
outperform the Yaesu FC-20.
I do not wish to use an ATAS-100, FC-20 or any of the Yaesu
products made for the FT-100D. While easy to use, they are
clearly not high performers on more difficult bands like 80
m and 160 m and have limited impedance range. (Yes, I
operate mobile on 160!)
Please correct me if I am wrong, but my investigations
suggest that a combination of an FT-100D, LDG RT-11 remote
autotuner and W4RT OTT-100D "one-touch tune" for the FT-100D
1. The OTT-100D "keys" the FT-100D into CW but does not
diminish the output power to 10 Watts. One must first use
the menu system to diminish the carrier power. The LDG tuner
does not want to "see" more than 25 Watts during the tuning
process, otherwise damage may occur. Can one be sure to
remember to decrease power before tuning the antenna, then
increase it again afterwards??
2. The OTT-100D does not appear to place the RT-11 into
"autotune" mode. One must activate "tune" on the RT-11 via
its control interface. To do this from the driver position
would seem to require the LDG remote control panel, an added
expense and space occupant. (In my vehicle, the RT-11 and
body of the FT-100D would be in the trunk with the removable
head being installed at the driver position.)
There also appear to be interfacing problems with the
FT-100D and several high performance screwdriver antennas.
Control interfaces are "being developed" or "on the way".
Seems like Yaesu's determination to have FT-100D purchasers
use its antenna (ATAS-100) and autotune products (FC-20) has
resulted in interfacing problems to high-performance
autotuners and antennas that aren't there with the Icom or
Kenwood small, mobile rigs.
Please correct me if I've got this all wrong, as I'd love to
hear that the interfacing to an RT-11 can be done with
one-touch timing, including reduced CW power for tuning (25W
maximum) and a return to selected mode after the button
push - as is possible with other rigs.
Comments would be much welcomed.
Bill Evans
VE4UD
313 Carpathia Road
Winnipeg, Manitoba, R3N 1T2
PH: (204) 489-7434
FAX: (204) 487-7199
FAQ on WWW: http://www.k0lee.com/ft100faq.html
We are all a part of this Lets make it as good as possible.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Evergreen, CO 80439

Tel: 303-679-1794
Fax: 303-679-1045
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Bruce Shrader
2003-05-21 14:47:37 UTC
Permalink
The Ft-100 and LDG tuner do not need the W4RT OTT
device. if you want to tune, switch MODE to AM and key
the mike. The radio then generates a carrier of about
60 watts. Then switch back to SSB and you ready to
talk.

N4ADO
Post by Bill Evans
After many, many months of studying all pertinent
reflectors, reading reviews in various magazines and
talking
to users, I decided to purchase a Yaesu FT-100D for
(primarily) mobile and 454/144/432 operation at my
lake
cottage.
However, after operating mobile for many years with
a
Kenwood TS-690S/AT, I realize how important an
easy-to-implement, wide-range, autotuner function is
- even
when qsying just a few kHz on a band like 80 m. The
Icom
IC-706 models offer terrific capabilities in this
regard,
when used with both Icom and aftermarket tuners
(which
duplicate the Icom remote tuner interface). Just hit
the
IC-706 "Tune" button and away you go. Rig mode
switches to
CW, power is cut to 10 Watts, remote autotuner is
activated
and in less than 5 seconds you are ready to go on
the new
frequency with an excellent match.
However, after studying the technical info on the
LDG RT-11
and W4RT web sites, I have to conclude there are a
few
impediments in achieving equivalent operation with
the
FT-100D and aftermarket autotuner products that
clearly
outperform the Yaesu FC-20.
I do not wish to use an ATAS-100, FC-20 or any of
the Yaesu
products made for the FT-100D. While easy to use,
they are
clearly not high performers on more difficult bands
like 80
m and 160 m and have limited impedance range. (Yes,
I
operate mobile on 160!)
Please correct me if I am wrong, but my
investigations
suggest that a combination of an FT-100D, LDG RT-11
remote
autotuner and W4RT OTT-100D "one-touch tune" for the
FT-100D
1. The OTT-100D "keys" the FT-100D into CW but does
not
diminish the output power to 10 Watts. One must
first use
the menu system to diminish the carrier power. The
LDG tuner
does not want to "see" more than 25 Watts during the
tuning
process, otherwise damage may occur. Can one be sure
to
remember to decrease power before tuning the
antenna, then
increase it again afterwards??
2. The OTT-100D does not appear to place the RT-11
into
"autotune" mode. One must activate "tune" on the
RT-11 via
its control interface. To do this from the driver
position
would seem to require the LDG remote control panel,
an added
expense and space occupant. (In my vehicle, the
RT-11 and
body of the FT-100D would be in the trunk with the
removable
head being installed at the driver position.)
There also appear to be interfacing problems with
the
FT-100D and several high performance screwdriver
antennas.
Control interfaces are "being developed" or "on the
way".
Seems like Yaesu's determination to have FT-100D
purchasers
use its antenna (ATAS-100) and autotune products
(FC-20) has
resulted in interfacing problems to high-performance
autotuners and antennas that aren't there with the
Icom or
Kenwood small, mobile rigs.
Please correct me if I've got this all wrong, as I'd
love to
hear that the interfacing to an RT-11 can be done
with
one-touch timing, including reduced CW power for
tuning (25W
maximum) and a return to selected mode after the
button
push - as is possible with other rigs.
Comments would be much welcomed.
Bill Evans
VE4UD
313 Carpathia Road
Winnipeg, Manitoba, R3N 1T2
PH: (204) 489-7434
FAX: (204) 487-7199
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David Kiwerski, Senior Comm. Tech
2003-05-21 19:49:46 UTC
Permalink
Just a thought - I have the LDG RT-11 (unassembled at this time) and an FT-100. Correct me if I'm
wrong, but if I understand the FT-100/ATAS-100 operation (simplified version), when you press the
tune button, the radio transmits a low level signal along with the DC for the antenna motor. The
radio reads the reflected power and adjusts the antenna accordingly. When the reflected is below a
certain level, the radio considers things OK and stops tuning. Seems this could be used for other
types of tuners?

Dave WP2AAT
Post by Bruce Shrader
The Ft-100 and LDG tuner do not need the W4RT OTT
device. if you want to tune, switch MODE to AM and key
the mike. The radio then generates a carrier of about
60 watts. Then switch back to SSB and you ready to
talk.
N4ADO
Post by Bill Evans
After many, many months of studying all pertinent
reflectors, reading reviews in various magazines and
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Bruce Shrader
2003-05-21 23:04:00 UTC
Permalink
Hi David,

I don't know about this, I guess it would work.
According to what I have heard, when you press the
"Tune" button (for tuning the ATAS antenna) it causes
the FT-100 to transmit a 10 watt CW signal. You might
be able to suppress the DC voltage for antenna
operation.
IF so, then you could manually tune an antenna tuner
with the 10 watt CW signal. However, as I said, when
tuning my FT-817/Z-11, all I do is switch mode from
"USB" to AM (or FM) and "key" the mike. The Z-11
goes "bzzzzz click bzzzz" and then it's tuned. Then I
switch back to "USB" and I'm ready to talk. It's very
simple, and I don't need to spend the money for the
"OTT" device. You can do the FT-100,FT-847 and FT-897
the same way.

73 de N4ADO



--- "David Kiwerski, Senior Comm. Tech"
Post by David Kiwerski, Senior Comm. Tech
Just a thought - I have the LDG RT-11 (unassembled
at this time) and an FT-100. Correct me if I'm
wrong, but if I understand the FT-100/ATAS-100
operation (simplified version), when you press the
tune button, the radio transmits a low level signal
along with the DC for the antenna motor. The
radio reads the reflected power and adjusts the
antenna accordingly. When the reflected is below a
certain level, the radio considers things OK and
stops tuning. Seems this could be used for other
types of tuners?
Dave WP2AAT
Post by Bruce Shrader
The Ft-100 and LDG tuner do not need the W4RT OTT
device. if you want to tune, switch MODE to AM and
key
Post by Bruce Shrader
the mike. The radio then generates a carrier of
about
Post by Bruce Shrader
60 watts. Then switch back to SSB and you ready to
talk.
N4ADO
Post by Bill Evans
After many, many months of studying all
pertinent
Post by Bruce Shrader
Post by Bill Evans
reflectors, reading reviews in various magazines
and
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uk119070
2003-05-22 21:54:19 UTC
Permalink
David, Thanks!

I have built the RT11 and am using it next to the FT100. The RF
tends to upset it a bit - due to the long control lines I have.

I was trying to find out how the FC20 'talked' to the FT100, so that
I could make up a PIC controller which followed the tune button -
but your idea of capturing the DC signal is brilliant.

At this time, the only problem I can see is that the ATAS setting on
the FT100 stops it transmitting (and therefore tuning) below 40m, so
80 and Top band would be no-go. But to be able to use the Tune
button to tune the ATU.... great!

I will do some experiments soon and let you know how I get on.

Best wishes
John
G0GCD/M


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Robert R.
2003-05-21 23:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Set CW power down to a lower setting.
I assume most of us use SSB when mobile.
That answers one of your points.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Evans" <bevans-ElZOzcW6kOwsA/***@public.gmane.org>
To: <FT100-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 7:02 AM
Subject: [FT100] FT-100 And Autotuners
Post by Bill Evans
After many, many months of studying all pertinent
reflectors, reading reviews in various magazines and talking
to users, I decided to purchase a Yaesu FT-100D for
(primarily) mobile and 454/144/432 operation at my lake
cottage.
However, after operating mobile for many years with a
Kenwood TS-690S/AT, I realize how important an
easy-to-implement, wide-range, autotuner function is - even
when qsying just a few kHz on a band like 80 m. The Icom
IC-706 models offer terrific capabilities in this regard,
when used with both Icom and aftermarket tuners (which
duplicate the Icom remote tuner interface). Just hit the
IC-706 "Tune" button and away you go. Rig mode switches to
CW, power is cut to 10 Watts, remote autotuner is activated
and in less than 5 seconds you are ready to go on the new
frequency with an excellent match.
However, after studying the technical info on the LDG RT-11
and W4RT web sites, I have to conclude there are a few
impediments in achieving equivalent operation with the
FT-100D and aftermarket autotuner products that clearly
outperform the Yaesu FC-20.
I do not wish to use an ATAS-100, FC-20 or any of the Yaesu
products made for the FT-100D. While easy to use, they are
clearly not high performers on more difficult bands like 80
m and 160 m and have limited impedance range. (Yes, I
operate mobile on 160!)
Please correct me if I am wrong, but my investigations
suggest that a combination of an FT-100D, LDG RT-11 remote
autotuner and W4RT OTT-100D "one-touch tune" for the FT-100D
1. The OTT-100D "keys" the FT-100D into CW but does not
diminish the output power to 10 Watts. One must first use
the menu system to diminish the carrier power. The LDG tuner
does not want to "see" more than 25 Watts during the tuning
process, otherwise damage may occur. Can one be sure to
remember to decrease power before tuning the antenna, then
increase it again afterwards??
2. The OTT-100D does not appear to place the RT-11 into
"autotune" mode. One must activate "tune" on the RT-11 via
its control interface. To do this from the driver position
would seem to require the LDG remote control panel, an added
expense and space occupant. (In my vehicle, the RT-11 and
body of the FT-100D would be in the trunk with the removable
head being installed at the driver position.)
There also appear to be interfacing problems with the
FT-100D and several high performance screwdriver antennas.
Control interfaces are "being developed" or "on the way".
Seems like Yaesu's determination to have FT-100D purchasers
use its antenna (ATAS-100) and autotune products (FC-20) has
resulted in interfacing problems to high-performance
autotuners and antennas that aren't there with the Icom or
Kenwood small, mobile rigs.
Please correct me if I've got this all wrong, as I'd love to
hear that the interfacing to an RT-11 can be done with
one-touch timing, including reduced CW power for tuning (25W
maximum) and a return to selected mode after the button
push - as is possible with other rigs.
Comments would be much welcomed.
Bill Evans
VE4UD
313 Carpathia Road
Winnipeg, Manitoba, R3N 1T2
PH: (204) 489-7434
FAX: (204) 487-7199
FAQ on WWW: http://www.k0lee.com/ft100faq.html
We are all a part of this Lets make it as good as possible.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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john BUNKER
2003-05-24 19:29:24 UTC
Permalink
I use a choke balun betweet the R-11 and FT-100. Also done the swr mod on
the Ft-100. I have had very good luck with the RT-11 OTT-100 and eaven a 4:1
Balun feeding an In V ant.
Subject: [FT100] Re: FT-100 And Autotuners
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 21:54:19 -0000
David, Thanks!
I have built the RT11 and am using it next to the FT100. The RF
tends to upset it a bit - due to the long control lines I have.
I was trying to find out how the FC20 'talked' to the FT100, so that
I could make up a PIC controller which followed the tune button -
but your idea of capturing the DC signal is brilliant.
At this time, the only problem I can see is that the ATAS setting on
the FT100 stops it transmitting (and therefore tuning) below 40m, so
80 and Top band would be no-go. But to be able to use the Tune
button to tune the ATU.... great!
I will do some experiments soon and let you know how I get on.
Best wishes
John
G0GCD/M
FAQ on WWW: http://www.k0lee.com/ft100faq.html
We are all a part of this Lets make it as good as possible.
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